What do I need to do to rectify this issue? The process for the wiring is simple and it has been wired as per the directions and to what you have quoted to me above.In order for me to return the Sniper, what would the process be? Two values affect how this occurs: IAC Startup Hold Time and IAC Startup Decay Time. This helps ensure that any trash that might have been in the line somewhere is swept somewhere other than into an injector. Will the height of the return line be an issue? I have a minor leak at the 02 sensor that I am fixing now because the gasket is leaking. In fact, they may be terrible values when applied to your engine. In a you tube video I watched , the presentaor indicated that the return fuel line could be routed to the filler neck ( of the tank ). Then draw the power for the relay directly from the battery. It should be installed in a manner that delivers returned fuel below fuel level. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. The challenge will be what you call the "right fuel system". O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector. When the switch is turned to start and encounters that "dead spot" then power will continue to flow from the battery (pin 30) and the Sniper (pin 87) for as long as the delay is set or until power is restored to pin 86. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. So try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens. Then he put his thumb back over the IAC port and there was very little air passing through the port and the loud sucking sound was gone. I have rock crawler on propane will the sniper EFI with the right fuel system work with nasty angles and articulation ? Hello, I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. Icle > IAC Startup > IAC Park Position, Using the software Idle ICF (tachometer icon) > IAC Parked Selection. Thanks Chris, keep up the good work. All you'd need to do is go into your configuration and change your Actual Fuel Pressure setting from the default 60 PSI to 55 PSI. The four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, while the available eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp. A throttle linkage extender and a progressive linkage kit. If so then it is (regardless of what the O2 sensor says.). I have two questions at this time: 1. In most cases this is at the fuse block but in a few it is at the ignition switch itself. Not some generic piece as some have speculated. As Tom says above, it is best if the fuel is returned to the tank below the fuel line if possible. Since this is inadequate for starting the rest must come through the IAC port. It starts fairly well. Price Point: $$$. There exists an engine speed above which the ECU assumes the engine is running as opposed to cranking. This is most easily done using the blue fuel pump wire. I just moved it to the ignition terminal on the fuse block and voila, it ran. (Plus, it's easy to do---see this article.) The default for these systems is 400 RPM. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. Power glide with 1.80 first gear, 6,200 converter. Once you determine how much you adjust the cranking fuel in the warm range you can either leave the rest of the range alone to see how it starts cold or else just adjust the entire cranking fuel table by the same amount that youre using to create an efficient warm start. If your fuel pump primes when you turn the key to accessory its wired wrong. Price Point: $$$. Many of these are completely normal with EFI. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! Is a tremendous volume of fuel sprayed in all barrels? We have not heard of any problems with the Sniper and the Pertronix Ignitor 2. If you're getting in the 10's your asking for issues. (Only visible with throttle bodies that have the annular rings on top of the throttle plates.). That's what the fuel prime is all about. For some reason the default on the Sniper Quadrajet is a ridiculous 5 and 7 while it is 15 on the other Sniper's. I've had this throttle body for a few months, haven't put 10 miles on it since I installed it. FE 390 that currently has a Pertronix distributor with the Ignitor 2 module. Getting it smoothly to operating temperature was. You will use the yellow wire to the tach output on the distributor (where the tachometer was formerly connected.) This is especially true if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM. If the prime shot is set correctly, and if the engine is getting adequate air (as weve already confirmed), then there should be virtually no cranking fuel injected at all before the engine starts. *Possible delays due to Covid-19 click for more information. Thanks in advance. You also need to properly phase the rotor. Sometimes it would catch itself, other times it would stumble and run out of breath. Go Gators. Nor can I really recommend that you split it as I have. 10.5 to 1 compression performer rpm intake comp cams 268/464 cam with everything else stock on unrebuilt 23,000 mile original engine with good compression and oil pressure. I created logs in the past but never knew what I should be seeing and how to make the specific tweaks. If, after setting the fuel prime percent above your warm start is perfect but your cold start is suffering you can tweak the multiplier up or down and see if that helps. Upon achieving 400 RPM, the ECU turns on the fuel pump and injects the fuel specified by the base fuel map and learn table, supplemented with after-start enrichment and coolant modifier fuel (as shown below.). If that works then try halving them again. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. Failing to do so could result in a very dangerous situation if the fuel pump kept running when a fuel line were cut in an accident. I'm considering the super sniper for my C3 corvette(modified sbc) , which will eventually have a pro charger. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. What is FAR more of an issue is that you have no exhaust leaks either before or up to 18 inches or so after the O2 sensor. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. :-), Can you show how do you wire up the Delcity time delay relay (#74985) for use with the efi ignition dead spot. Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! I'm worried that the engine will stall at idle. You are on the right track!Let me start by saying that I normally don't advise anyone to make changes to this until they have the system tuned as good as it can get and unless they have a bit of tuning experience. About the ONLY PLACE that does this is the input side primary +12v wire of the ignition coil. It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. Where do I start looking for the solution? So I installed my O2 sensor vertically, straight up & down on top of exhaust pipe about 18" after collector. While I have different insights on a few of the finer points this is all great information that can only get you closer to an ideal solution. Set the table type to Air/Fuel Ratio Offset4. Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my sniper. Top 10 Sniper EFI Installation Tips from Holley's Tom Kise, Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer. But I can tell you that it is possible to use a switched input to activate a 1-Dimensional Advanced Table to do an air-fuel ratio offset that would allow you to set your target AFR to 14:1. Hi, I have a 1987 Firebird with 305 engine and Quadrajet carb. Can I lower it for this purpose? Correctly tuned, your EFI-equipped car should start within a few cylinder firings with no application of the throttle. Get a gauge. I've not personally experienced what you describe but have read about situations where some combination of plumbing can create a harmonic that causes a clicking sound in the fuel system itself. Latest Articles. Does this mean it will have to learn all over again? Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. Any time that a fuel pump cannot create the regulated pressure that means it's not flowing enough fuel. Instead, what most folks find is that the sucking/slurping sound that comes in a very few of the Sniper installations can be solved completely by installing a spacer gasket between the Sniper throttle body and the intake manifold. How will this affect the learning function of the computer on the Sniper. Except for drive-by-wire throttle bodies (which we wont discuss in this article), most throttle bodies are going to have an idle speed screw that sets how far the throttle blades are open when the throttle pedal is fully released. Featured Products Sniper EFI $7.07 - $2,457.95 471 Products View Parts author Staff Writer 1711 Posts An Article About Video tech Sniper EFI Videos Sniper EFI Tech Sniper EFI sniper Installation At startup the pump runs a few seconds, the ECU fires a prime shot of fuel, and sometimes the presure drops a bit in the process. If you do not understand a step seek assistance. Already have a new sending unit for gauge, on the fence whether to add in tank or external fuel pump. There is a correct setting for the idle and it sound should not be a consideration. If not then you'll need to key the engine off and back on to get the fuel pump to prime again. It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. Runs good, but dies while I drive down the road. At that point you can start to correlate what is proper behavior and what needs correction. EFI Systems based on Holley's world-class Dominator and HP ECU's. If I let it prime twice, it starts much faster. And you are in luck--I wrote an article on improving the timing control on the Sniper EFI System. 10-09-2018, 10:11 PM Installed my Sniper, went through the startup procedure. This is why most OEM EFI pumps are in the tank. Price Point: $$, Robust, feature-rich Assuming the engine does not have some defect, seeing four cylinders is completely adequate. I have checked my wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also. Hard to answer. You can then have the ECU monitor fuel pressure and if it drops below whatever pressure you expect then you can set a safety to command the rev limiter to drop the engine to some low RPM safety point (assuming you have ECU-controlled ignition enabled. But I strongly suspect that is not the case. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. Not perfect but not bad. The amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC Park Position and is temperature dependent. This is called the fuel prime shot. Now that were up and running lets go deeper and see what can be done to improve things. You're not running your EFI system without a gauge are you? Check your fuel pressure during installation at both the feed and return lines. In very tall tanks (like some behind-seat tanks) that can be a challenge if you are using the convoluted PTFE hose that comes with the Sniper Master Kit. Your advice would be appreciated. And the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement of roughly 33%. I would be interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions. Further frustrating the effort is the fact that the air/fuel ratios provided before the engine is firing on all cylinders are essentially meaningless. Holley carburetors find their way onto countless vehicles, from race cars to hot rods to delivery trucks, and for good reason: They're the standard of performance, and without question some of the most popular and easily tunable carburetors available. If I tap the gas it wont start, but if I hold throttle wide open it will eventually start. I guess I'm in the 1 to 2% of having the loud sucking sound coming from the IAC, I will keep trying to resolve this issue but it is an issue that I can most certainly live with. But I have MSD 6 AL. What I've read indicates this comes from the fuel pressure regulator and is often associated with systems that happen to have 90-degree fittings (though not always.) Capability Range: Moderate Once the engine is warm you can repeat the cranking process as many times as is necessary to get the fuel prime shot correct for warm cranking. Capability Range: Professional Also there are times when I am working on the car, I have the battery disconnected. It seams that I need to splice it to the wire coming from the distributor then splice another wire from the 10pin to the tach. That is pretty straight forward. That is not the case. This happens with some carburetors on dual planes as well. Compression, properly metered fuel, correctly timed spark. Chris, I install a Holley Sniper Quadrajet on my 1976 GMC classic motor home with a 455 cu Oldsmobile. Is one barrel not spraying at all? We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. Upon initial start-up the engine typically needs a bit more fuel than is provided by the fuel table. Capability Range: Advanced Turn your prime shot down (I think I run about 75% and NEVER let it fire its prime shot when the engine is warm. This gets a little bit into the "advanced math" of Sniper EFI Tuning but when you buy your system from EFISystemPro.Com you can give me a call and I'll gladly walk you through this. Quick Start Tuning. Do you get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking? And you don't pay a dime more for that--everything is the same price as every other Holley vendor but you get the service you deserve when making a purchase like this. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). That means at or above 55 PSI it is capable of flowing ZERO fuel. Fires up & runs perfect. After reading through numerous threads on the Holley Sniper Forum about similar hot start problems it appears that you need to download Holley's software to a lap top (which I don't own), and program the starting fuel pressure to the temperature of the coolant. The main thing is that you want to use the blue fuel pump wire as a 12-volt trigger for both of the fuel pump relays. Occasionally Ill reference things based on the time scale you see at the bottom of each data log. I think it's a bad WBO2 sensor or bad IAC. Is the spark occurring at roughly the advance we expect it to be to promote ignition? A common issue we see is a result of poor fuel pump grounding running a eyelet from the pump ground to a rusty or painted surface. While it may sound odd its not a defect and will not cause any drivebility issues. Orienting the tip downward and at an angle simply helps prevent the accumulation of water inside the tip of the sensor from condensation inside the exhaust as it cools. My question is if both of my fuel pumps are wired from relays to my rocker panel where does the blue fuel pump prime wire connect or would you just not use it altogether. If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. Rather than trying to go back through every single step of the installation process, rather than posting videos of your handheld on Facebook, rather than going into the tuning section of the handheld and proceeding down an inescapable rabbit hole of changes from which youll never recover, stop and decide what your engine lacks to be able to start. From there it is a slam dunk. Is the fuel pressure correct? Much appreciated! You mentioned its use in # 9 of the top 10 Sniper EFI installation tips. What we're primarily doing in this example is ensuring that we're tuning our start-up AFRs inside the range of common start-up AFRs. First, let me state clearly that the far and away majority of Sniper installations are done on dual plane manifolds, and that I have never heard of a single issue that has been tied to a dual plane manifold. Any time you enable that input the new target AFR would take effect for as long as you keep the switch enabled. Thanks! Connect the crank and run wires together and all should be good. If space between the breather and the hood is not an issue, and if you want the benefits of a spacer, then this Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer is a great choice. If your O2 sensor is pegged lean, then replace it. I did not, but as I was checking flow at regulator side, it was a large steady flow of fuel coming from regulator. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Price Point: $, Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. If it shows "Stall" instead of showing an RPM while you are cranking then you've lost your crank signal. This circuit shuts off during crank and will obviously cause problems. There is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed. My car is going on the dyno for final tuning next week. It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. I was wondering if you could help out? That amount of air is determined by the IAC Park Position. Make sure the fuel pump is properly mounted and picking up fuel. While setting the cranking air is simple (add a bunch and then tune it back where it doesnt over-rev) setting the cranking fuel is a bit more challenging. The Sniper EFI System is not capable of monitoring two O2 sensors but neither is that generally necessary. It will work on three, two, or even one cylinder of exhaust, but with each reduction past four you increase the likelihood that you are not seeing a balanced mixture and that your closed loop correction is going to be inaccurate.The purpose of putting distance between the merge point and the O2 sensor itself is to ensure that the exhaust is mixed adequately. I plan on converting to efi this coming spring. If it dies or drops more than 50-75 RPM the throttle is closed too far. ), I have the sniper efi system with the holley retro-fit in tank electric fuel pump. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! Thanks. There is very little downside to having IAC Park Position be too big. Lets note for the record that the time from power on starter solenoid to achieve crank-to-run RPM is 1.13 seconds. Good luck! Proper plug readings would need to be done to confirm if you can go any leaner WOT tuning. Do I still need the holley 12-753 30 amp relay. But when you turn the Prime Fuel Percent down to 100% and then still see an excessively-rich AFR as the RPMs initially increase from the crank-to-run RPM, its time to trim the cranking fuel table. Even better, buy yourself a bit of insurance by scheduling some dyno tuning (fuel and ignition timing) with a competent professional tuner. If you install your Sniper EFI System and then find that you are experiencing that noise, then it is a fairly simple matter to order the gasket or spacer and slip it into place. Hi Chris,Thank you so much for your quick response to my query. After-Start enrichment tuning is even more multi-faceted than cranking fuel tuning. Clicking, ticking and sucking sounds. Some good info here thank you. Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? If you free dumped it in the top, it will aerate and foam up the fuel. Is that correct? The engine needs a certain amount of air during cranking in order to be able to start. This is extremely unreliable afrer warm. Thats what we want, right? If not then stop and buy one now. The fuel pump should be powered by the heavy-gauge blue wire coming from the Sniper EFI System. Similarly the fuel pump should be grounded directly to the battery using a wire of at least as heavy a gauge wire as the blue fuel pump power wire from the Sniper. Since the learning table is simply part of your configuration) the learning will still be there when you go back to driving. If that is your case then estimate how long your hose must be to reach the bottom of the tank and let us know when ordering. Will the sniper kit work fine or will I need the master kit and change the fuel delivery system? ), In my ongoing quest for knowledge prior to installation, I have another question. Try cranking immediately upon key-on--before it has a chance to prime. Capability Range: Advanced Use all of the tools at your disposal including (or maybe especially) your ears, eyes, and nose. Super helpful. The Del City Time Delay Relay is pinned just like a normal relay. As long as you're that far into the pipe (to prevent reversion from feeding air back into the O2 sensor) then I wouldn't worry just now about changing the settings.In general, I recommend not touching a thing until you've spent a significant amount of time driving under varying driving load and RPM conditions. The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. It needs to have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the tank and the pump. My fuel pump keeps running when the ignition is on but the motor is not. Start by increasing your TPS and MAP ROC blanking values. Thanks for the kind words. May God's grace bless you in the Lord Jesus Christ. Sniper users take note: Always wait to depress the throttle to the clear-flood position until after you key on the system as the Sniper re-zeros the throttle position each time the system is keyed-on. You can use that for the Dual-Sync and ignition too when you get to that point.Running the O2 sensor on a single side of the dual exhaust works fine. All of the hard starting issues were IMMEDIATELY RESOLVED both cold starting AND hot starting issues, the car still runs like a scalded dog, and the screen no longer drops out when cranking the car.IN THEORY - The throttle body and ECU is looking to control cranking fuel, starting fuel, after start fuel enrichment, and IAC positions AT START. By doing this you ensure that the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine is not running. The engine starts and idles great. Don't let that get the best of you. He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. But with patience you will get there. The kit I bought: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-550-511 Also for timing control, this distributor: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sne-565-302 Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. Like mine does, and the time from starter engagement to achieving crank-to-run is well under a secondan improvement roughly. To confirm if you do n't let that get the fuel pump to prime again wiring harness no. Lets go deeper and see what can be done to confirm if you free dumped it in the and. Fuel table click for more information car do this ensure that the time from power on solenoid... 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