And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? I think this feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. So is Ziegler lying? He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. And wouldn't he really feel more at home in amore errrrrrrrr Gnostic setting? I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? I am ready :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply > following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface. It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" I am normally the last guy in the> world to criticize somebody for using big words. Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. Please either stop > or> shape up. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." But he can't know for sure (because she wasmasked at Somerton). This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. <<<<<<<<<<<. Please either stop orshape up. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. WebEyes Wide Shut Flat Mask By NomadMessenger From $8.79 Wide Awake during 2020, by Haus of Butterfly Flat Mask By hausofbutterfly From $10.99 Eyes Wide Shut Flat Mask By ArjunVile From $10.99 Colorful watercolor ink splash woman portrait Flat Mask By Misschemical From $9.16 Colorful watercolor ink splash woman portrait Flat Mask By And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. One of the most fascinating feature films ever made, the revered auteurs final effort is notorious in every sense of the word. Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. In a case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his mind, but he was kinda busy. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. 2. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)> would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elites> doesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who do> recognise the realities of social power and of desire are just> paranoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those who> attribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are being> properly paranoid). I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. ", "They were nutcases. And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. That is a possible explanation. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? >What else could he call it? But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:[email protected] "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. -----Richard Schultz [email protected] of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. The Redeemer's voice does sound alot like Mandy's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Amazing. Put on some headphones and listen. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. NG was :>the realization of that potential. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. <<<<<<<<< But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. ". Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. But that's not the half of it. Is that how youwould describe it? What a joke to call them "philosophers." Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). 0. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. No comments. The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. If it was all a elaborate part of Bill's initiation into the order. Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. I found them both disappointing. >Apparently word of Bill's> entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. orpsychotherapists. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. The film revolves around the tension between these twophenomena; it is about this tension): 1. desiring Amanda Curran to bethe Mandy from Ziegler's party would confirm his guilt - in hisprofessional capacity as a doctor attending a patient in need - aboutleaving her fate in the hands of Ziegler, serving power rather thanmorality or medical ethics, a guilt he now seeks to redress byimmediately going to visit Amanda/Mandy at the hospital to try andredeem himself; and 2. desiring Amanda to be the masked woman, a womanwho seemingly redeems Bill's Somerton-crashing guilt for him via theSomerton 'charade.'. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. > Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. Next: The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story. Orgy? > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? -- Steven L.Email: [email protected] the NOSPAM before replying to me. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" I never siad Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when we study it. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. WebSynopsis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. Perhaps the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut began when the maker of the film, Stanley Kubrick, died only days after the first viewing of it. > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. Orgy? Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? ", "I saw her body in the morgue. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". He's super modern too, so his favorite movies include Jaws, Die Hard, The Thing, Ghostbusters and Batman. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Let's get out of here.You're my witness. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. <<<<<<<<. Crumb Eye. > If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. He > was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," > were killers. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes? It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." OT. On Friday, July 17, 2015 at 5:36:03 PM UTC-4, JD Chase wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, [email protected], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inLfK535oxs. Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug overdose. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? 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